Field Of Schemes Post Yesterday

JetBlue Flight To NYC In Trouble




JetBlue average load on a flight is in the low 80's .     That is where you see Orlando and Fort Lauderdale.



On the other hand the flight to NYC is at 46%.   Airlines do not keep flights that have loads of 46%.  

JetBlue/Massport has two choices:


  1. Give up on this flight
  2. Give us a 2nd or 3rd NYC flight to make this route viable

Obviously we would hope for the second, especially since according to the Points Guy:


The New York-based carrier will add four flights for up to 10 a day between Boston Logan (BOS) and New York LaGuardia (LGA), JetBlue said Wednesday. With the added service that will begin this spring, the airline will offer up to 22 flights a day between Boston and the New York area, including Newark Liberty (EWR) and New York John F. Kennedy (JFK).
Maybe Massport/JetBlue could see the benefits of adding flights in Worcester.   Why not just 20, instead of 22 from Boston to NYC, and increase us to 3????
Point here is that the flight is in trouble and we need to be doing something about it, not pretending it is going great...    There are two things we can do it:


  1. Work to get additional flight to NYC
  2. If the answer is no, we should end this flight ourselves and ask for a another direct leisure flight.   Have loads of 46% is not a get look to attract other airlines to Worcester Airport. 

**  FOOTNOTE
The current NYC schedule gives us no chance at success
Departure       6:00AM lands 7:00AM
Return         10:50 PM lands 11:47 PM



Comments

Robert said…
I haven't been able to use ORH - JFK because it doesn't connect to much of anything.
Anonymous said…
Better times 6am out and 12pm in is not viable for many. Also went to fly out def 30th an the flight was outright cancelled with no alternative option provided and many were left stranded knowing they were to kiss their connecting flights to their vacation destination. Then rebooked the next morning and the flight was delayed almost 2 hours. 1 flight a day get it together. 3 flights a day keep the fares reasonable...
Anonymous said…
You guys are sitting on a gold mine here Worcester affordable living to NYC 33 minutes up and down and you cant figure it out. Two to three flights a day with lower fares. Also need to be more reliable none wants to fly out of worcester because its notorious for delays and cancellations. Where I assume if people are flying to new York for the day it is most likely for business so time is of the essence. Get it together you have one damn flight a day and you still manage to botch it consistantly. Less reliable than the mbta. Joke!!! Should be a damn goldmine in theory wyou could live in Worcester and work daily in nyc. But the problem is the flights are to expensive if not booked early and so unreliable, left with no alternative of the flight is cancelled.
Dylan said…
The JFK flight has been actually very reliable since the CAT III went alive. If you look at the stats, it operated 350 days last year which is similar in success to what you will find at any major airport. The issue now is 100% the schedule and lack of reliability. People want to see more than one flight in case anything happens to their flight not to mention the additional connection options that will open up as a result. It baffles me ORH management made this scheduling mistake once let alone THREE times with three different airlines. It should be a pretty major sign its an issue when you are the only city on all three route maps to connection hubs with only one flight per day.
Unknown said…
Please don't cancel this flight. If anything give us more options. I think there needs to be more marketing to promote this very convenient and cost effective opportunity. I am not a business person but I fly about once a month to visit family in NYC and it has been a life-saver for me as the drive is too difficult. I mention it to people all the time about how easy it is to arrange connecting flights and more convenient than other airports. Folks seem to always be surprised it is available.
I have never had a flight canceled. Occasionally there have been delays but never more than 45 minutes either way. Well worth the wait for the convenience and ease of access.
I would be personally devastated if this were canceled as an option for me.
Let me know if you need help marketing this flight. I will be happy to help!!
Unknown said…
Please don't cancel this flight. If anything give us more options. I think there needs to be more marketing to promote this very convenient and cost effective opportunity. I am not a business person but I fly about once a month to visit family in NYC and it has been a life-saver for me as the drive is too difficult. I mention it to people all the time about how easy it is to arrange connecting flights and more convenient than other airports. Folks seem to always be surprised it is available.
I have never had a flight canceled. Occasionally there have been delays but never more than 45 minutes either way. Well worth the wait for the convenience and ease of access.
I would be personally devastated if this were canceled as an option for me.
Let me know if you need help marketing this flight. I will be happy to help!!
I was looking at booking a FLL flight for September (which haven't been released yet) and noticed that the FLL flight time in August has changed. Currently the flight leaves FLL for ORH at 1:20pm and then leaves ORH for FLL at 5:07pm. In looking at the August flights the flight leaves FLL for ORH at 8:00pm arriving at 11:03pm and then leaves ORH for FLL the next morning at 6:30am arriving in FLL at 9:30am. While the morning flight to FLL is awesome the flight coming back isn't. That's an awful lot of time to kill waiting for your flight if you have to check out of your hotel at 11:00am or arrive back from a cruise that morning. If they keep these times we'll may fly out of ORH in the morning but definitely won't be waiting around all day to fly home at 8pm. I really don't get why this has to be so difficult for JetBlue and MassPort fo figure out.
Anonymous said…
A new flight from Worcester to Washington DC area (Reagan, Dulles, or BWI) would be very popular I think. Lots of business people, students, vacationers, families would be attracted to what is essentially a 12-month destination. Please consider it!!
Anonymous said…
A direct flight to RSW Fort Myers would be great. Becoming a very busy vacation destination.
Ydnas said…
I hope they don’t cancel the New York City flights. My first one is scheduled for April. I agree the times aren’t the best but the wait time in New York City to transfer to Raleigh Durham is only an hour or so. I just discovered these flights and they would be very convenient when I go to visit my brother who lives in North Carolina. He’s retired so it doesn’t really matter what time I get there. Just the convenience of driving 10 minutes to the airport without any traffic hassles. In Boston I am always sitting around in the airport for a flight that generally is delayed an hour or three makes Worcester much more convenient. Even landing at 11:45 at night, your car being right out in the easily accessible parking lot and only having a 10 minute drive home makes it acceptable. More flights would have me flying more.
Anonymous said…
We need a flight to and from NYC in this area. Please don’t cancel it. However another flight in and out would be great. I am not a fan of the times in and out now. Now with Limoliner shutting down to NY if marketed well another flight would be wonderful. Also mentioned abouve is Washington DC. Definitely a good idea. Recently flew in and out of Boston to Washington adding the Logan piece so much more difficult than WORCESTER. Central Mass needs more. One ruins to our area and consider lowering the prices a bit to fill up the planes. JetBlue you have a goldmine here please don’t destroy it!!!
Kathy
Dylan said…
I hope someone at Massport is reading this. We only have people that want to improve this flight. It's so glaring especially with feedback hearing consistently the lack of additional flights, thus more options, is what's holding this flight back. We want to see the JFK flight succeed but with 45% loads its hard to defend.

Erika, while we do agree that Orlando should have been the schedule to get the late return given the tourist travelers deserve the late return more, getting in to Florida at 1030 at night just wasn't ideal either and the outbound numbers in that time slot have declined over the past few years. It's not perfect given the market but it's much better overall than what was previously offered. Ideally we would like to see Orlando with the overnight, FLL with a midday turn somewhere and then an afternoon/evening JFK flight added. But we will certainly take it.
Anonymous said…
My understanding is that Massport looped in ORH-JFK flights with their negotiations for JetBlue BOS operations. It's less internal and more a part of the deal with the airport operator.
EllenF said…
I fly a red eye from California to NYC and I always wait hours to get the next flight to Boston. I would prefer Worcester because it is closer to my destination. Worcester is an easy in and out airport but there are few flights. Please add more options.
Anonymous said…
I would also advise promoted to local schools like Clark. It’s cheaper to send your kid on a flight then Amtrak if you’re coming from NYC. People don’t even know the service exists.
Anonymous said…
The JFK-Worcester flight has been a dream come true and I hope they keep adding more flights! I work and go to school in NYC and visit my family in Worcester every few months and it is SO convenient to take the evening flight out of JFK and leave Worcester early enough to make it to my office in NY for 9 or 10am! Also am able to bring friends home all the time, it's much easier to just hop over to JFK!
Anonymous said…
I was LITERALLY just looking at this route this morning. The flight times are HORRIBLE, especially if you're flying with a family. A pre-dawn flight to NYC and return flight at 10 or 11PM?!? Maybe these times work if you're flying to NYC for the day and want to pack in as much as possible, but I think adding another flight or two with more reasonable times would definitely increase passengers on this route!
Jim said…
I actually like the 6 AM flight to JFK, it gets me to the JFK gates arround 7 AM. I see it as a replacement for driving to Logan for a 7:30 AM flight, which would mean leaving Worcester arround 4 AM. Instead I leave home at 5 AM for the 6 AM ORH-JFK flight. From JFK, we can get to pretty much anywhere.... Plus parking at ORH is a bargain compared to even the private lot/shuttle in East Boston...

But coming home after Midnight sucks on the return trip.

Jim

Anonymous said…
We have understood from the get-go that this flight is part of a deal for JetBlue at Logan. However, given what JetBlue got for the single flight, plus the amount of flights they already have between the Boston and NYC corridor, it is unacceptable to accept this service with such a critical design flaw. This could be ORH's premier shuttle service since it is the only CAT III aircraft to a major hub and has been reliable for over a year now but it is a complete waste of time with the schedule the way it is now. This flight works for a very small, specific amount of people and with only one flight you are only connecting to 4 hours worth of options (4 hours is the maximum layover time alotted on JetBlue's website). Anyone who knows how JFK operates knows that the prime connection traffic - a major JetBlue arrival bank combined with massive international options - departs in the afternoon transitioning into the evening. We talk about 6 AM being a critical time for domestic connection departures and business travel, similarly for international traffic the 4-7 PM time period is the money maker for Europe and then a little later say anytime after 9 PM usually for Asia bound aircraft. ORH touches absolutely none of that with this flight.
Anonymous said…
I agree with the comments about the 6am departure to JFK being really good. It definitley beats the trip to Logan. But, we do need an option to get back before 11 pm, and having another turn is critical when you are connecting through JFK, especially in winter.

Any delay and you could get stranded, or end up having to fly back to Logan anyway. Thats happened to me more than once and I have to pay for a service to drive me back to ORH to get my car. Totally destroys the convenience and savings of ORH. Another turn would give you options.

I also agree with th comments that people don't even know that you can fly out of Worcester, to anywhere really. For example, there are dozens of New Englanders flying to Ft Lauderdale later this month for a big meeting, and none of them knew that ORH was an option.
Anonymous said…
I also agree with the direct flight to Washington DC comment. Jet Blue keeps adding BOS-DCA flights. Its like a bus. I use that flight all of the time and all of them are full or very near full.

Having to drive to and from Logan for such a short flight is a time suck and aggravation builder. An ORH-DCA (or other nearby airport) would be a huge hit for anyone that doesn't live within or very near Boston.
Anonymous said…
As others have mentioned, the ORH <--> NYC flight was part of the deal with JetBlue at Logan. To me, it was something done to satisfy the constituents of Central MA. Karyn Polito was there to lap-up the fanfare when the announcement was made (btw, about a year before actual service commenced).

The times are completely inconvenient. I have flown to NYC for business meetings in Manhattan. Yes, depart at 6AM for arrival at 6:35AM, but most times I've flown there's been ground traffic in NYC which forced us to sit on the tarmac for an additional 15-20 minutes. Then, if you take a cab into NYC from JFK, you'll sit in rush-hour traffic. The earliest I could make it into Manhattan was 8:45 (without luggage), which means it took an additional 2 hours to get from JFK to central NYC (without traffic, 30-45 minutes). I strongly recommend using the subway system, but again, PACKED because of the influx of commuters into the city. Very difficult if you're traveling with luggage / children.

I think the early time was chosen to make connecting flights, but booking through JetBlue.com isn't very helpful. If I wanted to book a flight through NYC, JetBlue's web site doesn't offer connecting flights through NYC easily (go there & try it). So what's the point of the early flight?

If JetBlue isn't going to add flights, then they need to adjust the times. I think a slightly later departure time of 7:30AM gets you into NYC at 8AM, and into Manhattan by 9:15AM (because the rush hour traffic isn't as heavy). Regarding the departure time out of JFK, 10:52PM is TOO late (getting in at almost midnight to ORH). A departure time of 9PM feels about right. If you have business in NYC, you can be done & complete dinner, with enough time to head to the airport. Being later isn't necessarily more helpful.

But if things don't change, this flight WILL FAIL because of the dropping passenger loads.

When it does . . . will Karyn Polito then schedule a press conference to announce that? Because she's always there for the good announcements, but nowhere to be seen when it's bad news.
Anonymous said…
On the issue of the long commute from JFK into Manhattan--DON'T EVER TAKE A CAR! You can also avoid the subway (which is MUCH faster than a car).

Take the JFK Air Train to Jamaica Station, then get on the Long Island Railroad train to Penn Station. I've made it into Midtown Manhattan less than 2 hours after parking my car at ORH. I haven't gone to NYC any other way since I figured this out.


Of course, I didn't get stuck waiting for a gate after landing for as long as you did. I hope that your experience was an abberation and the typical experience is more like mine.

I heartily agree that the return flight is pretty late, but I assumed that it was so people coming from elsewhere connecting through JFK could have a better chance of catching the connection back to ORH. If there was a twice daily flight, then that late flight would be a decent backup if the earlier one got canceled or delayed etc. Fat chance we'll get a second JFK turn if this one isn't making it (or, more accurately, the money that they make at BOS isn't making subsidizing this flight worth it).
Anonymous said…
Yeah, I learned after my first trip not to take a cab into NYC. I did exactly as you described afterwards (JFK Airtran to LIRR), and it is better BUT . . . if I had luggage/small children, it would've been much more difficult as the trains are packed with commuters from LI. Since I usually go for an all-day business trip, I wouldn't have either. So yes, your way is better.

I would say 3 out of every 4 times there is a gate delay. For some reason, it seems like the ORH flight arrives too early, so we have to wait while a gate opens. Maybe I'm just unlucky or they have addressed the issue since I've flown last.

I get why the late flight is so late, but really the remedy is to have 2 options going down & 2 options coming back. However, that won't happen if the current loads are so low (and getting worse), and I don't see how they'll magically improve.

I have also taken Acela out of Providence several times, and I found it to be a good experience. Traveling business / first class is great, and I use the time on the train for work. If you have the time & can pay for the higher fare, it is an alternative to the ORH flight. But ideally, more choices out of ORH would be the ideal solution for my trips to NYC.
Anonymous said…
"I get why the late flight is so late, but really the remedy is to have 2 options going down & 2 options coming back. However, that won't happen if the current loads are so low (and getting worse), and I don't see how they'll magically improve."

That is absolutely correct! It is a real dilemma to making the JFK flight work, which in my opinion is the key to making ORH work as a commercial passenger airport.

If this gets fixed as you suggested, ORH becomes a player and a real alternative to Boston, even having to make a connection. Getting in and out of Logan is that bad that a connecting flight is more convenient. It is a HUGE advantage and selling point and I don't know why MassPort doesn't see it. If you travel, you just know.

If the only place that you can reliably fly to from ORH is central and south Florida, the airport itself will never make it.

On the positive side, moving the FL flights back to morning departures is a BIG step toward success for the reasons many here have mentioned. I don't want to get to FL at night after any chance of using the day for business on a work trip or pleasure on a vacation trip. DIsney is expensive enough without adding an extra premium priced hotel night. Kudos to ORH for getting this done.
Dylan said…
It should be noted the only flight moving to morning is Fort Lauderdale. Orlando stays at the current time slot. We feel the cities should be reversed given the but like you said will definitely take it.

The JFK flight is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with the American and Delta flights as well, by the way. Add a very inconvenient connection option (note - singular, ONE FLIGHT) plus the incapability of the aircraft to make it in bad weather to the schedule its easy to see why no one is flying those as well. We are talking 30 people a day to major connection hubs - think about how little people that actually is. Not good. American at least gave ORH a chance but management quickly messed that up and has shown little signs of improving. For reliability too, AA is very quick to cancel anytime there is a possibility of inclement weather. Where they go from here is going to be very interesting.